Cataclysm Raid Progression Refinements

[Capmorgan]

So much of this is speculation based on what might be derived from what little information we know so far. I can't imagine there won't be 10 and 25 man options in guild. With a single lockout it will be interesting to see where people want to end up. From posts here it seems people are excited for the opportunities in a 10man structure but prior experience and participation levels tells me 25man content is where it's at.

ROFL and CaP both enjoyed quite a bit of success in 25-man content during TBC. WotLK changed the face of that for co-ops because you had to battle scheduling issues around all the guild 10-mans. Cata is changing that again. At initial glance, it looks like my personal efforts will be focused on a return to successful, rewarding 25-man raiding.

[Oda]

Raiding with 9 or 24 other like minded gamers > all. Its easier to find 9 then 24...and now we get the same gear. Its a no brainer.

I do agree that the one big thing is finding 9 reliable people to not waste time. It happens occaisionly with us that rl will cause us to switch the raid night. Kind of like if lag is retarded and you have to shift the raid night.

We actually have our main 10 group...and then on fridays, people with alts or the "secondaries" have their 10man icc run. So as to keep mains with alts pretty much geared up for the off chance that we may need to plug a hole the next tues/thurs.

Overall, I'm pretty excited about the changes and I'll bet that there will be some 10man groups neck and neck (if not outright leading) the progression on silvermoon.

[Dahn]

I'll chime in given I'll have the pleasure of haggling over all these things with you all soon enough. I too like most all of the changes as I am thinking thru the resulting makeup of our new guild in a Cataclysm system.

10v25
I realize I may be in the minority but I like 25 over 10. It's all about epic scale for me. The idea that we could get 40 disparate people from around the world to do something fun equalled great fun for me. That got reduced to 25 and most recently to 10. If we could see the same content with a 5-toon group, would you all like that more? Certainly 4 is easier to find than 9. The 10 fights are easier (more space to move, easier to see everything, less drain on my poor aging computer) and thus I don't feel as satisfied with our 10 progression than I do with CaP first kills.

What will our new guild raid, 10 or 25?
This entirely depends on the membership. If we have 30 capable raiders willing to commit to 3-4 nights a week (possibly rotating to get 2-3 active nights), then I'm certainly in favor of a 25 toon progression. If everyone really prefers the 10 variety, we can certainly run multiple 10 teams. I will enjoy not feeling behind the "real raid groups" even if we do 10s. I know there are more than 15 fun, extremely skilled players in our new guild that I would enjoy playing with and I want to make that happen. 25s give me a bigger pool for my friends I want to raid with vs. leaving someone out.

Burnout and Raid choices
I believe people choose 10 because they are easier to form. When we had TBC, we didn't have a choice and thus raided with much better attendance, people did not have a raid outlet competing for attention. Today we have too many choices and thus people actively choose less commitment to any one raid event/team because they have spread themselves across 25, 10 + alts. Throttling the earnings for top end points and gear coupled with single instance lockouts has me excited. I think it will contribute to forging real commitment to a raid team.

[wifeofsporz]

To prove that I DO read these threads - I have posted. Post more pics. Remember there worth a thousand words!! Enough said!!!

[Sycum]

10v25
I realize I may be in the minority but I like 25 over 10.

I honestly don't care either way when only looking at how many people there are in the raid. I'm merely speaking from the "typical frustration sources" when I choose one or the other. I get frustrated with 10m when we have to call the raid because one friggin person never logged in. I get frustrated in 25m because it feels like we have to pick every last kid on the playground for Kickball Deathmatch, and some of these kids play like they don't have any legs (I don't even have to hint at names here, wink-wink, nod-nod).

I am not a raid leader. I am not a person that can recruit and organize and galvanize a group of people into a raiding unit. I fully leave that to you that are capable and have a real desire to work from that angle. Therefore, I trust that, whatever happens within this conglomerate of NH-Aces-CaP, it was for the best given the resources and people we have. I know you guys can and will make the best of it.

The only input I would offer for the decision between 10 and 25: please be wary of who we use to fill to 25 if that's the desired raid size. Its an extreme example, but think back to our Teron Gorefiend days. If certain people got ghosted, we wiped, end of story. If we have 15 solid, skilled, committed raiders, and we fill up the raid with 10 extras that can't quite figure out how not to get hit by malleable goo, is it really worth it? People that can't spread out from Defile? How I not break Ice Tomb early? I would gladly trade that frustration for knowing that I will be sat out some weeks, heck I'll even gladly commit to running an alt night like Oda mentioned earlier. If Heli is on the bench this week, I'll happily dps with the rest of the bench-warmers and alts in a "kill whatever we can" one-night romp. I would much rather do that than be pissed at people in the raid for standing in fire 10 attempts in a row.

With 15 "ubers" you can:
1. Run one 10m and have a second run if/when you can fill from the bench/alts
2. Run two 10m and evenly distribute the ubers
3. Run two 10m with A-Team/B-Team split (just like BWL/MC days, this seems like it would just be option 1 in practice)
4. Fill to 25, depending on who you can recruit.

Shoot, even if we fill to 25 as a rule, those weeks with low attendance are ripe for the other 3 options. Only had 21 for Sunday's raid? Bam, insta-dual 10m runs!

[Capmorgan]

Post more pics. Remember there worth a thousand words!! Enough said!!!

so we would need approximately 10 pics for each of Mel's posts

[Dahn]

To prove that I DO read these threads - I have posted.

I refuse to accept posting as a natural result of reading. One merely has to look at the drivel in this forum to know the truth of my statement! But to accommodate your request, I shall endeavor to locate a suitable picture to represent my view, standby...

[Mellax]

Post more pics. Remember there worth a thousand words!! Enough said!!!

so we would need approximately 10 pics for each of Mel's posts

Hey now!

You'd only need 9 thank you very much!

[Bahn]

Fuck it. not worth it.